Jackson Hole, Wyoming

An insiders look with Tim Flanagan.

In this episode we go to Jackson Hole Wyoming, to find out what makes this beautiful area so special. Today we are talking about the real Jackson with Tim Flanagan, longtime Jackson skier, coach and owner of SkiGear TV. Tim has lived in Jackson for over 21 years, teaching, coaching and raining his family.

There are ski resorts that offer a great day on the slopes. And then there is Jackson Hole — a place that gets inside your head, resets your sense of what skiing can be, and quietly ruins everywhere else you'll ever ski. Smack in the middle of the Teton Range in northwestern Wyoming, 12 miles from the town of Jackson and just south of Grand Teton National Park, this is one of the holy trinity of American ski areas, and it earns that status every single day.

With a staggering 4,139 feet of vertical drop, terrain that runs 50% expert and 40% intermediate, and a legendary tram that has featured on more ski bucket lists than any other lift in North America, Jackson Hole is the mountain serious skiers eventually come to. The question isn't whether you should go. It's what to expect when you do.

To answer that, we spent time with Tim Flanagan — 21-year Jackson resident, ski coach, and owner of Ski Gear TV — for an honest, insider's guide to the mountain that has defined his life.

No Two Days Are the Same

The first thing Tim wants you to understand about Jackson Hole is that it doesn't behave like a normal ski resort. And that, he insists, is precisely the point. "This is not Colorado," he says. "This mountain can be very inconsistent, changing radically within a week. You can go from powder conditions to very firm and everything else in between." Where some resorts pride themselves on predictability, Jackson Hole throws conditions at you that demand adaptability, instinct, and skill. Wind-hammered crust on Monday, bottomless powder on Thursday, spring corn by the weekend. For skiers who want to genuinely improve, there is no better classroom in the country.

The Steep Truth: What the Numbers Actually Mean

Jackson Hole's official terrain breakdown — 50% expert, 40% intermediate, 10% beginner — tells you something important before you even set foot on the mountain. This is not a resort built around cushioning the blow. The pitches are real, the chutes are genuine, and even the groomed intermediate runs carry gradients that would qualify as expert terrain at other resorts.

Tim is honest about this. "The only people that still struggle a little bit are intermediates, because it doesn't have blue runs on the same caliber as what you'd find at Stratton Mountain or Deer Valley. The pitches are a little steeper." But he's equally clear that this shouldn't put anyone off. "After skiing here for a week, if you're an upper-level intermediate and you take a lesson or two, you can become an expert pretty quickly on this hill."

For beginners, the lower mountain around the Teewinot area offers genuinely ideal learning terrain — sheltered, manageable, and served by a ski school Tim has high praise for. "The ski school is really well tuned into how you can get people to take that next leap. I absolutely think it's a great place for beginning skiers, kids included."

The key is going in with the right expectations: Jackson Hole will push you, and you will be a better skier for it.

Then there's Corbet's - that well know couloir that gets all the footage. That is just one of the steep narrow drops you can find on this hill. Casper Bowl and the Crags comes with a warning and disclaimer, Granny's and Alta Chutes and the list grows - keep your weight in the right place and don't make any mistakes - you'll be fine and challenged- but they aren't for beginners.

World-Class Grooming: The Mountain's Best Kept Secret

Ask most people what they picture when they think of Jackson Hole and the answer will involve couloirs, cliffs, and deep powder. What they won't picture — but should — is the grooming. "You can't ignore the world-class grooming that's going on here now," Tim says. "It's as good as Sun Valley, as good as Beaver Creek, as good as Snowmass. These guys really know how to work snow in all kinds of conditions." The grooming operation at Jackson has elevated dramatically in recent years, with winch cats preparing slopes that most resorts wouldn't dare touch. The result is that even the steep sections of the mountain get the full treatment, delivering fast, perfectly prepared corduroy that has quietly spawned a thriving carving culture at what was once considered purely a powder and steeps destination.

"If you're a skier who wants that type of experience, you can go from one boundary to the other and find groomed runs, good piste skiing, and some of it quite steep," Tim explains. For a mid-sixties skier who describes his perfect day as "lapping from boundary to boundary on groomers at 35 to 40 miles an hour, making lots of turns," the transformation has been remarkable.

Crowds? Not Here.

One of the quiet revolutions at Jackson Hole in recent years has been the approach to managing visitor numbers. Unlike the mega-resorts where peak days mean 45-minute lift lines and shoulder-to-shoulder runs, Jackson Hole has implemented a lift ticket reservation system that keeps crowds in check.

"By limiting the number of skiers, we really don't have lift lines here anymore," Tim says. "For me, it's all about the mileage. I just want to go long distances and not have to look over my shoulder, wondering if someone's going to T-bone me." When many American ski resorts have become victims of their own popularity, Jackson Hole has taken deliberate steps to protect the on-snow experience — and it shows.

Don't Miss Snow King: Jackson's Other Mountain

Teton Village gets the headlines, but serious skiers visiting Jackson owe it to themselves to spend a day at Snow King — the resort sitting right above the town of Jackson itself, and one of the most underrated ski experiences in Wyoming.

Snow King holds the distinction of having the steepest continuous pitch of any ski hill in North America. Its newest run, Yeti, is rumored to roll over at 56 degrees in places. "I was down it about a week and a half ago and it spooked me," Tim admits — high praise from a man who has spent 21 winters on some of the most challenging terrain in the country.

But Snow King isn't just for masochists. New infrastructure — including a gondola to the summit, improved grooming, a new back-bowl chairlift, and a brand-new lodge under construction — has transformed it into a full resort experience. The back bowl, Tim says, "is warmer than the base area and when the sun is shining up there, it's outrageous." Add a panoramic view of the entire Teton Range from the summit, and you have a day that rivals anything in the valley.

Past Skiing: Jackson Is a Destination in Its Own Right

Great skiing alone would be enough to justify the trip to Jackson. But the town and its surroundings offer an off-slope experience that sets it apart from virtually every other ski destination in North America. Start with the National Elk Refuge — a vast sanctuary just north of town where thousands of elk winter each year. Sleigh tours take you right into the middle of the herds, surrounded by massive bulls in one of the most extraordinary wildlife encounters available anywhere in the continental US.

The National Museum of Wildlife Art is, in Tim's words, "outrageous — you can spend four hours in there and be blown away." For those who want to venture further, Yellowstone National Park is accessible year-round via snowmobile tours and snow coaches, with guided trips to Old Faithful and the geyser basins offering a genuinely otherworldly winter experience.

Back in town, the dining scene has grown with the resort's profile while retaining its Western character. From steakhouses and sushi to mountain-modern fine dining, the quality is consistently high. On the hill, the gondola restaurant at the top of Teton Village is a particular highlight — ski up, sit down for lunch with views over the Tetons, then click back in and finish your afternoon. Up at Astoria Hot Springs, recently revived just south of town, there's no better way to end a hard day on the mountain.

The nightlife still centers on the iconic Million Dollar Bar, a Jackson institution that has outlasted countless trends. "It's still going strong," Tim says — and a new steakhouse in the basement has made it a destination for locals and visitors alike.

A Community Built Around Skiing

What makes Jackson Hole more than just a great mountain is the culture that surrounds it. Tim grew up watching his father sleep in car parks and shovel snow for lift tickets — a true ski bum who eventually settled at Winter Park and passed the obsession down to his son. That same DNA runs through Jackson today, where kids still ride the school bus to Snow King after school, clip into their skis, and spend their afternoons on the hill.

"The sport of skiing for me is freedom, but it's also the community that's built around it," Tim reflects. "Skiers, especially those that grew up doing it, have a unique bond. It doesn't matter where you're from. You can always seek those people out." In a world where ski resorts increasingly feel like lifestyle brands, Jackson Hole still feels like a ski town — a place where the mountain comes first, the community is tight-knit, and the culture is built from the snow up.

Plan Your Trip

Getting there: Jackson Hole Airport (JAC) sits inside Grand Teton National Park — one of the most dramatic airport approaches in the world. Direct services operate from major hubs including Denver, Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, and New York. Teton Village is a 25-minute transfer from the airport.

Best time to go: January and February deliver the most reliable powder conditions and the full resort experience. March offers longer days and spring-condition. Book lift tickets in advance — the reservation system is in place and popular dates sell out.

On the hill: For your first visit, consider booking a private instructor for a half or full day. As Tim puts it, "the mileage you get and the insight you get from those folks is super valuable." It is the fastest way to unlock the mountain — and to stay out of trouble on it.

Transcript

Hi, I'm John Morgan. Welcome to Where Should I Ski, the podcast. Today we're going to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, one of the holy trinity of ski areas in the U.S., smack in the middle of Teton Range in the Rocky Mountains, 12 miles northwest of the town of Jackson and due south of the Grand Teton National Park.

Jackson is arguably the most scenic ski area in North America. It's independently owned since 1982 and it's unique by not being owned by one of the big conglomerates and therefore it retains its unique character. The main mountain at Teton Village is known for its steep terrain and huge vertical of 4,139 feet.

The official stats are 50 percent expert, 40 percent intermediate, 10 percent beginner, with all this terrain serviced by a new and extensive lift system. That system's headlined by the spectacular and legendary tram. Today we're talking about the real Jackson with Tim Flanagan, longtime Jackson skier, coach, and owner of Ski Gear TV.

Tim has lived in Jackson for over 21 years, teaching, coaching, and raising his family. So Tim, let's talk Jackson. Jackson, Wyoming.

Well, I'm from Colorado and I was born and raised in the same county, Grand County, Colorado, which is between, basically between Bertha Pass and Rabbit Ears Pass. And I had met my wife at a ski race in Crested Butte and she had grown up in Jackson and always wanted to come home and we had an opportunity to do that. So we sold everything and here we are.

And how long you've been up there? It's been a while. It's, yeah, it's 21 years I believe now. So not a local, not even close, but working on it.

There's not a lot of locals left up there, but it's, at 21 years, you're pretty much as close as it gets. Well, maybe. You don't tell a real local that.

Tell me about Jackson. What, what do you, what's the best thing about Jackson of all the, in your 21 years, what's the best thing you've run into there? Well, it was an, it was and remains an incredible place to raise kids. It's kind of the right size, has all of the activities you can imagine.

Art, dining, all kinds of social stuff that goes on. The school district and the school system here is quite good. And I think a lot of that has to do with the wealth that moved in here, demanding a higher level of education and accountability on all levels.

And so it's still, you know, it's still a pretty small part of the world at maybe 20, 21,000 residents, but with all of the things that you would get in a big metropolitan area. So I think that's the, that's the number one takeaway. It was the best move we could have made for our kids.

And when you have kids, then, you know, the net, the thing that follows it's, it's the best thing for you. So in 21 years, you must have skied Jackson in pretty much every condition that's out there. That was the thing that blew my mind every time I visited before we moved here.

And then after we moved here, this is not Colorado. This mountain can be very inconsistent, changing radically within a week. You can go from powder conditions to very firm and everything else in between.

And that's what I love about it still to this day is it's never the same two or three times. It's always something different. And that, and that makes it not only interesting, but just really good for your scheme because you learn how to handle everything that you get thrown at, that gets thrown at you.

Yeah. And there's some, there's some stuff that gets thrown at you there. When I skied Jackson, it's, I usually end up going with somebody that knows the mountain and they throw me off some corner somewhere.

And the next thing I know, I'm one of the steepest runs I've ever been on. That happens, but then, you know, you can't ignore the world-class grooming that's going on here now. And when we first moved here, the grooming was, you know, pretty good.

Not Beaver Creek quality, but now it's, it's as good as Sun Valley. It's good as Beaver Creek, as Snowmass. These guys are, they're, they're really know how to work snow in all kinds of different snow conditions.

And the, the grooming scene and the carving scene is actually getting really big here. So that really covers the whole mountain, not just the really steep expert parts, but, you know, I'm talking about even, you know, Aparebu or something like that. Yeah.

If you're a skier that wants that type of experience, you can go from left to right, from one boundary to the other and find groomed runs, good pieced skiing, and some of it quite steep because, you know, they have to do it with winch cats and to prepare those slopes. And yeah, these guys are really good at it. So, and then of course you get all the steep shoots and all of that other stuff as well.

So in terms of, you know, the different types of skiers, the only people that still struggle a little bit are intermediates because there is no, it doesn't have blue runs that are on the same caliber of what you would find at Stratton Mountain in Vermont, let's say, or, you know, down at Deer Valley. The pitches are a little steeper, but after skiing here for a week, if you're an intermediate, upper level intermediate, and you take a lesson or two, you can become an expert pretty quickly on this hill. So do you think Jackson's not a place for a guy to take his family who's just learning how to ski? It's, you know, it's the next step.

It's type of place where you'd go, you know, after the kids have gotten to the point where they're pretty solid and maybe you and your wife are starting to get pretty solid. No, I think you can bring absolute never ever beginners here without question, because the lower mountain, the T-1 on its own is ideal learning and ideal teaching terrain. It's actually perfect.

It's the next jump up. It's a little bit of a challenge, but the ski school out there at Jacksonville Mountain Resort is really well tuned into how you can get people to take that next leap. And so I absolutely think it's a great place for beginning skiers, kids included.

So that brings up another sort of point that I've worked on a couple times is to be able to get a guide or, you know, just not a ski class ski instructor, but somebody who can show you the mountain to be able to find the mountain and find those places you want to ski on one of your first days at any new area. Is that same at Jackson? Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, you can hire an instructor for a day.

I think you get up to five people in there and if you just want them to give you a tour of the ski hill so you can become familiar with what's out there, it's a really great way to do it. But I think it's well worth it because the mileage you get and the insight you get from those folks is super valuable. And I actually will hire a private lesson instructor at other ski hills that I haven't visited myself.

You know, it's just, I'm going to do it in Italy here next month. So it just, it makes your vacation better. Yeah, it does.

I'm a full believer in that. I do the same when I go a number of other places. Having a local show you around is really, really good.

Also keeps you out of trouble. Yep. Well, you know, restaurants, so they can, you know, they can walk you through the dining scene, not only on the ski hill, but also they have familiarity with what's going on in town and, you know, the nightlife or whatever it is you're looking for.

And be it, be it for adults or kid-friendly or all of it, you know, that's, it's the business they're in. So they, they really are valuable for lots of reasons. So I'm going to switch directions a little bit.

What's your favorite day at Jackson? Like what, what would you go out and if you're going to ski for, you know, four, six, seven hours, what are you going to go? What are you going to go hit? You're a good skier. Well, nowadays, since I'm entering my mid-sixties, I avoid bumps as, as much as possible. So I can go lap from one boundary to the other and stay on groomers, but, you know, ski on like a giant slalom ski, but in terms of its flex characteristics, but in something that's 88 underfoot, you know, and just motor around like taking runs that are 35, maybe 40 miles an hour, making lots of turns and, and just cruise.

And now with this whole lift ticket reservation system, which a lot of people are griping about and at Jackson Hole, that, that applies to walk up window ticket purchases, icon passes, mountain collectives. By limiting the number of skiers, we really don't have lift lines here anymore. So you can get mileage.

And for me, it's all about the mileage. I just, I don't care about vertical feet so much. I just want to go distances, long distances and not have to look over my shoulder, wondering if someone's going to T-bone me and end skiing for me forever.

And so that's kind of, that's my favorite day at Jackson and take a long lunch and ski in the afternoon until about 3.30 and head home. That, that sounds about perfect. Do you have, do you have days out there where there's just so much snow, they've got to close down part of the mountain and is there a way to be able to ski it then? Well, that does happen, right? When there's, when they're doing a lot of avalanche control, but the snow safety guys out there at Jackson Hole are really good at getting the ski hill open.

So it's rare that they would close a large section of it, if any of it actually, because a lot of traverses and stuff cross that type of terrain. So no, that rarely happens. And we just had a big 40 inch weekend.

And some people were complaining that it was so much snow that it was almost not steep enough to turn in, but you know, people still got out there and slayed it. That's when you start getting into snorkel weather. Exactly.

And I believe that that set an all-time record for a single snow event for this mountain. Early in our conversation, you talked about all the different things in Jackson to do. You know, you said there's arts, there's restaurants, there's a lot of things there.

You know, when I've been there, I've been out in the Elk Range down in the valley, and that's really cool. What kind of things are there to do besides skiing up there? Well, there you hit on one of them. You can tour the Elk Refuge, which is actually fascinating.

They really get you right out in with the elk herds, and you see these massive bulls, plus all of the rest of the herds that gather out there. That's fascinating. The National Museum of Wildlife Art is outrageous.

You can spend four hours in there easily and be blown away by some of the stuff that they have on display. And speaking of art, there are lots of really good art galleries. Catherine Turner is actually my favorite local artist these days, and her work is phenomenal.

You just got to see it. Snowmobiling, and of course Yellowstone National Park, you can snowmobile up there in the winter, and that's really a unique experience. You can also take snow coaches up in there, and they'll take you all the way to Old Baseball, and you can still walk around the geyser basins and those things.

There are snowmobile tours close by here. Just south of town, Astoria Hot Springs has been reborn, and that's a great place to go after a day of skiing. Some of these hotels have their own spas, so like our buddy Cory Carlson can always be seen in the Four Seasons Spa.

He's a regular there, right? I mean, that's just the tip of the iceberg. If you want a night ski, you can ski at Snow King. Yeah, how is Snow King these days? I haven't skied there in a long time.

I remember that as being as steep as anything. Right, cold, dark, and steep. Snow King actually has the steepest continuous pitch of any ski hill in North America.

Now they've opened this run, Yeti, which is the steepest run in all of Jackson Hole in Teton County, and supposedly the rollover is 56 degrees. I was down it about a week and a half ago, and it spooked me. That's like 120 percent.

That's big. Oh, it's crazy how steep it is. Now they put in a bunch of new lifts, including a gondola to the top.

They have amazing slope grooming. It's where all the ski racers train for the Jackson Hole Ski and Snowboard Club, and then I coach the Jackson Hole High School Ski Team, so we do all our training there, and it does have lights at night, lots of man-made snow, and then they put in a chairlift on the back side, so they have a mini veil-back bowl. It's like a eighth or a quarter of the size of a veil-back bowl, and it's warmer up there than it is down in this side, you know, the base area, and when the sun is shining up there, it's outrageous.

It's really great skiing, and it's about, I don't know, you can get about 30 or 40 turns back in there, you know, if you're making 15 to 18 meter turns. That's a huge difference. Oh yeah, and they're building a whole new lodge facility up at the top, and it will be the wedding venue or family reunion venue in all of Jackson Hole because the views from up there, you can see the entire Teton Range all the way up towards Yellowstone, and then all of the mountains to the east, and then the valleys to the south.

It's just a panoramic view that's unsurpassed in this valley, so it's a game changer. They're also building a big observatory up there, so that's going to be good. That's very cool.

Has town changed much? I assume there's more new restaurants, there's more, you know, more names, more things. You know, I remember going to the Million Dollar on off nights up there, but I'm assuming that that's sort of, that's still there, but it's sort of passe by now. Well, it's still going strong, and there's a new steakhouse actually in the basement of that place that everyone is, all the locals are raving about that, but we also have, you know, every type of food you can imagine in this town, and the quality is very high, and that includes out in Teton Village, there are great restaurants.

One of my favorites in Teton Village is at the top of the gondola. You can go up there and have lunch, and you know, it's just, it's great, a great dining experience, and then you click into your skis and finish out your day. It's pretty amazing, but back to town, has town changed a lot? Some of the, there's some new mountain modern architecture that's coming in, they're building six million dollar cracker boxes, but they're selling like mad, just like everywhere else where people want to be, and you know, a lot of the workforce is no longer able to afford to live here, which is tragic actually, because now, you know, we're depending on a lot of people that are commuting in, and that makes it difficult, but the core of the town is still remains the same, and I think the vibe essentially is still the same with the locals.

Some of the folks that have moved here recently are trying to, you know, just like happens in every small town, including the one I grew up in, they move in for the vibe, and then they want to change it, so that's going on here too, but overall, it's still a really amazing community, and they're just phenomenal people that live here. Well, that is, that's good to hear that it's still got the vibe, it's still got the people that really make it what it is. I'm going to sort of finish up with one last big question.

What's your philosophy about skiing for yourself? Your philosophy around skiing is probably very much tempered by growing up in Colorado and then moving to Jackson, but... Yeah, you know, my dad came west as a true ski bum from New Hampshire. He hails from southern New Hampshire, and he came out west, slept in his car in parking lots, shoveled snow in exchange for food, busted tables or did whatever in exchange for lift tickets, and he was just passionate about skiing. Ultimately, he settled in Winter Park, became a ski instructor.

He was a stonemason in the summer, and when I came along in growing up, the school bus would drop me at the Winter Park ski area after school, and I would get there just in time to, if I could get my gear on quickly enough, catch a chairlift ride, and then back then when we were ski racing, we would hike up because the chairlifts would close, they wouldn't keep them open for us, and we'd hike up and run gates, and that was an amazing experience to grow up doing that. Well, all that was going on in Jackson Hole and still goes on. A lot of kids ride the school bus to Snow King after school and go up on the ski hill and do their thing, and so that's an amazing lifestyle.

So the sport of skiing for me is this freedom, for sure, but it's also just the community that's built around it. You know, skiers, especially those that grew up doing it, have a unique bond, so it doesn't matter where you're from or where you end up. You can always seek those people out, and I'm heading to Sun Valley this weekend, and I've been over there a few times, and I know all these locals because we have this connection to the lifestyle and the sport, and is it healthy? Absolutely, and it's just fun.

I think I get the one thing that it's taught me. It's a great and healthy way to live our lives, and I think my wife and kids would absolutely agree. Tim, thank you for taking the time to talk to us about Jackson today.

If you want to ski with Tim, I'm sure you'll find him flying down those groomed runs pretty much every day. If you like our podcasts, please share them and listen to perspectives on other areas we've discussed. Thanks for joining us.

Episode Transcript

Hi, I'm John Morgan. Welcome to Where Should I Ski, the podcast. Today we're going to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, one of the holy trinity of ski areas in the U.S., smack in the middle of Teton Range in the Rocky Mountains, 12 miles northwest of the town of Jackson and due south of the Grand Teton National Park.

Jackson is arguably the most scenic ski area in North America. It's independently owned since 1982 and it's unique by not being owned by one of the big conglomerates and therefore it retains its unique character. The main mountain at Teton Village is known for its steep terrain and huge vertical of 4,139 feet.

The official stats are 50 percent expert, 40 percent intermediate, 10 percent beginner, with all this terrain serviced by a new and extensive lift system. That system's headlined by the spectacular and legendary tram. Today we're talking about the real Jackson with Tim Flanagan, longtime Jackson skier, coach, and owner of Ski Gear TV.

Tim has lived in Jackson for over 21 years, teaching, coaching, and raising his family. So Tim, let's talk Jackson. Jackson, Wyoming.

Well, I'm from Colorado and I was born and raised in the same county, Grand County, Colorado, which is between, basically between Bertha Pass and Rabbit Ears Pass. And I had met my wife at a ski race in Crested Butte and she had grown up in Jackson and always wanted to come home and we had an opportunity to do that. So we sold everything and here we are.

And how long you've been up there? It's been a while. It's, yeah, it's 21 years I believe now. So not a local, not even close, but working on it.

There's not a lot of locals left up there, but it's, at 21 years, you're pretty much as close as it gets. Well, maybe. You don't tell a real local that.

Tell me about Jackson. What, what do you, what's the best thing about Jackson of all the, in your 21 years, what's the best thing you've run into there? Well, it was an, it was and remains an incredible place to raise kids. It's kind of the right size, has all of the activities you can imagine.

Art, dining, all kinds of social stuff that goes on. The school district and the school system here is quite good. And I think a lot of that has to do with the wealth that moved in here, demanding a higher level of education and accountability on all levels.

And so it's still, you know, it's still a pretty small part of the world at maybe 20, 21,000 residents, but with all of the things that you would get in a big metropolitan area. So I think that's the, that's the number one takeaway. It was the best move we could have made for our kids.

And when you have kids, then, you know, the net, the thing that follows it's, it's the best thing for you. So in 21 years, you must have skied Jackson in pretty much every condition that's out there. That was the thing that blew my mind every time I visited before we moved here.

And then after we moved here, this is not Colorado. This mountain can be very inconsistent, changing radically within a week. You can go from powder conditions to very firm and everything else in between.

And that's what I love about it still to this day is it's never the same two or three times. It's always something different. And that, and that makes it not only interesting, but just really good for your scheme because you learn how to handle everything that you get thrown at, that gets thrown at you.

Yeah. And there's some, there's some stuff that gets thrown at you there. When I skied Jackson, it's, I usually end up going with somebody that knows the mountain and they throw me off some corner somewhere.

And the next thing I know, I'm one of the steepest runs I've ever been on. That happens, but then, you know, you can't ignore the world-class grooming that's going on here now. And when we first moved here, the grooming was, you know, pretty good.

Not Beaver Creek quality, but now it's, it's as good as Sun Valley. It's good as Beaver Creek, as Snowmass. These guys are, they're, they're really know how to work snow in all kinds of different snow conditions.

And the, the grooming scene and the carving scene is actually getting really big here. So that really covers the whole mountain, not just the really steep expert parts, but, you know, I'm talking about even, you know, Aparebu or something like that. Yeah.

If you're a skier that wants that type of experience, you can go from left to right, from one boundary to the other and find groomed runs, good pieced skiing, and some of it quite steep because, you know, they have to do it with winch cats and to prepare those slopes. And yeah, these guys are really good at it. So, and then of course you get all the steep shoots and all of that other stuff as well.

So in terms of, you know, the different types of skiers, the only people that still struggle a little bit are intermediates because there is no, it doesn't have blue runs that are on the same caliber of what you would find at Stratton Mountain in Vermont, let's say, or, you know, down at Deer Valley. The pitches are a little steeper, but after skiing here for a week, if you're an intermediate, upper level intermediate, and you take a lesson or two, you can become an expert pretty quickly on this hill. So do you think Jackson's not a place for a guy to take his family who's just learning how to ski? It's, you know, it's the next step.

It's type of place where you'd go, you know, after the kids have gotten to the point where they're pretty solid and maybe you and your wife are starting to get pretty solid. No, I think you can bring absolute never ever beginners here without question, because the lower mountain, the T-1 on its own is ideal learning and ideal teaching terrain. It's actually perfect.

It's the next jump up. It's a little bit of a challenge, but the ski school out there at Jacksonville Mountain Resort is really well tuned into how you can get people to take that next leap. And so I absolutely think it's a great place for beginning skiers, kids included.

So that brings up another sort of point that I've worked on a couple times is to be able to get a guide or, you know, just not a ski class ski instructor, but somebody who can show you the mountain to be able to find the mountain and find those places you want to ski on one of your first days at any new area. Is that same at Jackson? Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, you can hire an instructor for a day.

I think you get up to five people in there and if you just want them to give you a tour of the ski hill so you can become familiar with what's out there, it's a really great way to do it. But I think it's well worth it because the mileage you get and the insight you get from those folks is super valuable. And I actually will hire a private lesson instructor at other ski hills that I haven't visited myself.

You know, it's just, I'm going to do it in Italy here next month. So it just, it makes your vacation better. Yeah, it does.

I'm a full believer in that. I do the same when I go a number of other places. Having a local show you around is really, really good.

Also keeps you out of trouble. Yep. Well, you know, restaurants, so they can, you know, they can walk you through the dining scene, not only on the ski hill, but also they have familiarity with what's going on in town and, you know, the nightlife or whatever it is you're looking for.

And be it, be it for adults or kid-friendly or all of it, you know, that's, it's the business they're in. So they, they really are valuable for lots of reasons. So I'm going to switch directions a little bit.

What's your favorite day at Jackson? Like what, what would you go out and if you're going to ski for, you know, four, six, seven hours, what are you going to go? What are you going to go hit? You're a good skier. Well, nowadays, since I'm entering my mid-sixties, I avoid bumps as, as much as possible. So I can go lap from one boundary to the other and stay on groomers, but, you know, ski on like a giant slalom ski, but in terms of its flex characteristics, but in something that's 88 underfoot, you know, and just motor around like taking runs that are 35, maybe 40 miles an hour, making lots of turns and, and just cruise.

And now with this whole lift ticket reservation system, which a lot of people are griping about and at Jackson Hole, that, that applies to walk up window ticket purchases, icon passes, mountain collectives. By limiting the number of skiers, we really don't have lift lines here anymore. So you can get mileage.

And for me, it's all about the mileage. I just, I don't care about vertical feet so much. I just want to go distances, long distances and not have to look over my shoulder, wondering if someone's going to T-bone me and end skiing for me forever.

And so that's kind of, that's my favorite day at Jackson and take a long lunch and ski in the afternoon until about 3.30 and head home. That, that sounds about perfect. Do you have, do you have days out there where there's just so much snow, they've got to close down part of the mountain and is there a way to be able to ski it then? Well, that does happen, right? When there's, when they're doing a lot of avalanche control, but the snow safety guys out there at Jackson Hole are really good at getting the ski hill open.

So it's rare that they would close a large section of it, if any of it actually, because a lot of traverses and stuff cross that type of terrain. So no, that rarely happens. And we just had a big 40 inch weekend.

And some people were complaining that it was so much snow that it was almost not steep enough to turn in, but you know, people still got out there and slayed it. That's when you start getting into snorkel weather. Exactly.

And I believe that that set an all-time record for a single snow event for this mountain. Early in our conversation, you talked about all the different things in Jackson to do. You know, you said there's arts, there's restaurants, there's a lot of things there.

You know, when I've been there, I've been out in the Elk Range down in the valley, and that's really cool. What kind of things are there to do besides skiing up there? Well, there you hit on one of them. You can tour the Elk Refuge, which is actually fascinating.

They really get you right out in with the elk herds, and you see these massive bulls, plus all of the rest of the herds that gather out there. That's fascinating. The National Museum of Wildlife Art is outrageous.

You can spend four hours in there easily and be blown away by some of the stuff that they have on display. And speaking of art, there are lots of really good art galleries. Catherine Turner is actually my favorite local artist these days, and her work is phenomenal.

You just got to see it. Snowmobiling, and of course Yellowstone National Park, you can snowmobile up there in the winter, and that's really a unique experience. You can also take snow coaches up in there, and they'll take you all the way to Old Baseball, and you can still walk around the geyser basins and those things.

There are snowmobile tours close by here. Just south of town, Astoria Hot Springs has been reborn, and that's a great place to go after a day of skiing. Some of these hotels have their own spas, so like our buddy Cory Carlson can always be seen in the Four Seasons Spa.

He's a regular there, right? I mean, that's just the tip of the iceberg. If you want a night ski, you can ski at Snow King. Yeah, how is Snow King these days? I haven't skied there in a long time.

I remember that as being as steep as anything. Right, cold, dark, and steep. Snow King actually has the steepest continuous pitch of any ski hill in North America.

Now they've opened this run, Yeti, which is the steepest run in all of Jackson Hole in Teton County, and supposedly the rollover is 56 degrees. I was down it about a week and a half ago, and it spooked me. That's like 120 percent.

That's big. Oh, it's crazy how steep it is. Now they put in a bunch of new lifts, including a gondola to the top.

They have amazing slope grooming. It's where all the ski racers train for the Jackson Hole Ski and Snowboard Club, and then I coach the Jackson Hole High School Ski Team, so we do all our training there, and it does have lights at night, lots of man-made snow, and then they put in a chairlift on the back side, so they have a mini veil-back bowl. It's like a eighth or a quarter of the size of a veil-back bowl, and it's warmer up there than it is down in this side, you know, the base area, and when the sun is shining up there, it's outrageous.

It's really great skiing, and it's about, I don't know, you can get about 30 or 40 turns back in there, you know, if you're making 15 to 18 meter turns. That's a huge difference. Oh yeah, and they're building a whole new lodge facility up at the top, and it will be the wedding venue or family reunion venue in all of Jackson Hole because the views from up there, you can see the entire Teton Range all the way up towards Yellowstone, and then all of the mountains to the east, and then the valleys to the south.

It's just a panoramic view that's unsurpassed in this valley, so it's a game changer. They're also building a big observatory up there, so that's going to be good. That's very cool.

Has town changed much? I assume there's more new restaurants, there's more, you know, more names, more things. You know, I remember going to the Million Dollar on off nights up there, but I'm assuming that that's sort of, that's still there, but it's sort of passe by now. Well, it's still going strong, and there's a new steakhouse actually in the basement of that place that everyone is, all the locals are raving about that, but we also have, you know, every type of food you can imagine in this town, and the quality is very high, and that includes out in Teton Village, there are great restaurants.

One of my favorites in Teton Village is at the top of the gondola. You can go up there and have lunch, and you know, it's just, it's great, a great dining experience, and then you click into your skis and finish out your day. It's pretty amazing, but back to town, has town changed a lot? Some of the, there's some new mountain modern architecture that's coming in, they're building six million dollar cracker boxes, but they're selling like mad, just like everywhere else where people want to be, and you know, a lot of the workforce is no longer able to afford to live here, which is tragic actually, because now, you know, we're depending on a lot of people that are commuting in, and that makes it difficult, but the core of the town is still remains the same, and I think the vibe essentially is still the same with the locals.

Some of the folks that have moved here recently are trying to, you know, just like happens in every small town, including the one I grew up in, they move in for the vibe, and then they want to change it, so that's going on here too, but overall, it's still a really amazing community, and they're just phenomenal people that live here. Well, that is, that's good to hear that it's still got the vibe, it's still got the people that really make it what it is. I'm going to sort of finish up with one last big question.

What's your philosophy about skiing for yourself? Your philosophy around skiing is probably very much tempered by growing up in Colorado and then moving to Jackson, but... Yeah, you know, my dad came west as a true ski bum from New Hampshire. He hails from southern New Hampshire, and he came out west, slept in his car in parking lots, shoveled snow in exchange for food, busted tables or did whatever in exchange for lift tickets, and he was just passionate about skiing. Ultimately, he settled in Winter Park, became a ski instructor.

He was a stonemason in the summer, and when I came along in growing up, the school bus would drop me at the Winter Park ski area after school, and I would get there just in time to, if I could get my gear on quickly enough, catch a chairlift ride, and then back then when we were ski racing, we would hike up because the chairlifts would close, they wouldn't keep them open for us, and we'd hike up and run gates, and that was an amazing experience to grow up doing that. Well, all that was going on in Jackson Hole and still goes on. A lot of kids ride the school bus to Snow King after school and go up on the ski hill and do their thing, and so that's an amazing lifestyle.

So the sport of skiing for me is this freedom, for sure, but it's also just the community that's built around it. You know, skiers, especially those that grew up doing it, have a unique bond, so it doesn't matter where you're from or where you end up. You can always seek those people out, and I'm heading to Sun Valley this weekend, and I've been over there a few times, and I know all these locals because we have this connection to the lifestyle and the sport, and is it healthy? Absolutely, and it's just fun.

I think I get the one thing that it's taught me. It's a great and healthy way to live our lives, and I think my wife and kids would absolutely agree. Tim, thank you for taking the time to talk to us about Jackson today.

If you want to ski with Tim, I'm sure you'll find him flying down those groomed runs pretty much every day. If you like our podcasts, please share them and listen to perspectives on other areas we've discussed. Thanks for joining us.