Alta with Scott Urtel - steep chutes, deep powder and amazing

Scott Urtel

Tucked into the end of a box canyon in Little Cottonwood Canyon in the Wasatch Mountains of Utah; Alta is known for steep chutes and deep powder - an old-style ski town focused on the skiing and the people who ski there.

If you like skiing deep powder, challenging terrain and exploring a mountain that rewards local knowledge, Alta, Utah, belongs on your list.

Alta isn't the largest ski resort in North America, but its terrain and snow make it feel much bigger. The mountain has more than 2,600 acres, receives roughly 500 inches of snow in an average season and offers everything from beginner and intermediate runs to some of the most famous expert terrain in the Wasatch.

On Where to Ski, I talked with Scott Urtel, who has spent 25 years at Alta, including 21 years with the ski patrol. He's now the patrol's lead training officer and also guides with the Wasatch Powderbirds. His perspective is particularly useful because he knows Alta from virtually every angle — as a skier, patroller and guide. His message is pretty simple: Alta is about good snow and good terrain.

Why Alta?

Alta opened in 1939 and has maintained a traditional ski-area character. There isn't a huge base village or a long list of non-skiing distractions. The focus is the mountain.

Scott says that while Alta has become busier over the years, the reason people come hasn't really changed: they want to ski good snow on good terrain.

In good years the resort gets abundant snowfall, and its terrain has plenty of variety. You can ski open bowls, trees, chutes, groomed runs and steep faces, often within the same day. The result is a mountain that can take some time to learn.

Start at Collins

For an advanced skier visiting Alta for the first time, Scott recommends starting with the Collins chairlift. The lift climbs nearly 2,000 vertical feet in about eight minutes and provides access to the High Traverse and much of Alta's signature terrain. From there, you can reach areas including High Rustler, Gunsight, Stone Crusher, High Greeley and Eagle's Nest.

The important thing isn't simply knowing the names, it's understanding how the terrain connects. That's where a local guide can be especially helpful. The trail map tells you where you can go, but it doesn't tell you where the snow is best that morning or which route makes the most sense based on the conditions.

Ski the Conditions

One of Scott's best pieces of advice is to adjust your skiing to the weather.

During a storm, visibility can become limited, so he often looks for terrain in the trees and more protected areas. When the weather clears, the strategy can change.

In spring, for example, Scott likes to follow the sun.

As different slopes warm throughout the day, the snow can soften into ideal conditions. Ski one aspect, move to another and try to stay ahead of the freeze or avoid snow that has become too soft.

Alta's Expert Terrain

Alta is well known for its expert skiing, particularly High Rustler, but there is much more to explore. After a significant storm, ski patrol begins a carefully managed process of opening terrain. Areas such as East Greeley, Yellow Trail, Glory Hole and Ballroom are among the terrain patrol works to make available as conditions permit.

More challenging areas around Devil's Castle, Baldy Chutes and East Castle can take longer.

And that's because opening Alta isn't simply a matter of pulling a rope, avalanche control is a major part of the patrol's job. Scott explains that opening all of Baldy — including terrain such as Main Chute, Little Chute, Dogleg, Perla's, East Ballroom and the Shoulder — can involve approximately 20 patrollers working for several hours.

So when a particular area isn't open first thing in the morning, there's usually a good reason.

Avalanche Safety at Alta

Alta's steep terrain and heavy snowfall require a substantial avalanche-management program. Scott discusses the patrol's use of explosives and newer remote-control systems, including Wiesen Towers, to manage avalanche starting zones. Hand charges remain an important part of the process, with patrol sometimes using 80 to 100 or more during major morning operations.

For skiers, the lesson is straightforward: the terrain can be more complicated than it looks.

Some relatively mellow ski runs sit below large avalanche starting zones, so avalanche control isn't just about the steep terrain you're looking at. Patrol is managing hazards throughout the mountain before areas are opened.

Alta Isn't Just for Experts

Despite its reputation, Alta has plenty for intermediate skiers. Albion Basin and Sunnyside offer beginner and intermediate terrain, while Sugarloaf and Supreme provide additional blue runs alongside more challenging options. That makes Alta workable for groups with different abilities. Strong skiers can head for the steeper terrain while less experienced members of the group have plenty of places to ski.

Consider Hiring a Guide

If you're visiting Alta for the first time, Scott recommends hiring an instructor or guide for a day. You may not need someone to teach you how to ski. You may simply need someone who knows where to ski.

A guide can help you understand how the mountain fits together, identify the best terrain for your ability and adapt the day to the conditions.

For a large, complex mountain like Alta, that can save a lot of time.

Take a Coffee Break

Even Scott needs a break occasionally, and one of his favorite stops is Alta Java.

It's an easy place to grab coffee or something quick to eat before heading back out. The location also makes it convenient to get back toward the lifts and continue skiing.

When Should You Go?

Scott recommends February and March for a planned ski trip. By then, Alta has typically built a substantial snow base, and more of the mountain's terrain is filled in.

Interestingly, he doesn't necessarily think the biggest snow year produces the best skiing.

Scott says Alta can be particularly enjoyable with an 80- to 90-inch mid-mountain base because the mountain's natural features remain more defined. With extremely deep snow, some of the steeper terrain can become less steep as the snow fills in the underlying contours.

Where to Stay

Alta has several slopeside lodging options, including the Peruvian Lodge, Goldminer's Daughter, Alta Lodge, Rustler Lodge and Snowpine Lodge.

Staying at Alta puts you close to the lifts and eliminates the daily drive up Little Cottonwood Canyon. You can also stay in the Salt Lake City or Sandy area, which gives you access to Alta and other nearby ski resorts, but if a major storm is forecast, staying up the canyon has an obvious advantage. Road closures and restrictions can affect access to Little Cottonwood Canyon during significant snowfall.

Why Ski Alta?

After spending 25 years around Alta, Scott's enthusiasm for the mountain is easy to understand. It's not about having the biggest resort, the most lifts or the largest base village. It's about the skiing - the snow is abundant, the terrain is varied. There are famous steeps, interesting trees, excellent intermediate runs and plenty of terrain to explore. And because conditions change, there is always another reason to try a different part of the mountain.

Scott's description sums it up best: people keep coming to Alta because they want to ski good snow on good terrain.

Our Favs

• Best Hotel - ⁠Goldminers Daughter⁠ 

• Best Apres - The Peruvian or an Alta bomb at the deck outside the ⁠Goldminer’s Daughter⁠?

• Best Run - that really depends on the day and the snow - pick a chute

Episode transcript

Welcome to Where to Ski with me, your host, John Morgan. We're heading to Utah, grab your skis and let's dive into the world of skiing at Alta. My guest today lives in Cottonwood Heights right near the mouth of Little Cottonwood Canyon and has worked for Alta for 25 years, ski patrolling for 21 of those.

Scott Urtel is guided for Wasatch Powderbirds and for Ski with Kim for the last decade. He's currently the lead training officer for the Alta Ski Patrol and he skis this mountain pretty much every day of the season. He grew up skiing in southern Minnesota and after high school moved west, landing in Summit County, Colorado.

After chasing snow and terrain around the west for five years, he stumbled on Alta and has no intentions of leaving anytime. Alta is at the end of a box canyon in Little Cottonwood Canyon in the Wasatch Mountains of Utah. Known for steep chutes and deep powder, Alta's base elevation is 8,530 feet, has a vertical of 2,538 feet that supports 2,600 acres of skiing.

Not a mega resort by any means, the town is minuscule, no shopping malls here, but it's an old-style ski town focused on the skiing and the people who ski there. It was a mining town in the 1800s, was remote and avalanche prone. It was also pretty much wiped out in 1885 by a huge avalanche, sat there dormant for almost 50 years.

Then in 1939, Alta opened as one of the oldest ski resorts in the country due to the efforts of many people, including the Norwegian Alf Engen. It's only 35 miles from Salt Lake Airport and you can get there in about an hour. Alta is a snow trap, normally getting over 500 inches of snow a year.

In the big La Nina year of 22-23, it got over 900 inches. That's a lot of snow. It's regularly ranked as having the best snow in North America.

And when you think of light powder and steeps, when you hear the iconic trail names, High Rustler, Baldy Shoots, or Gunsight, that's Alta. It's an incredible variety of terrain suitable for every level of skier, but it's really skewed toward the intermediates, experts, and extreme skiers. It's not big, but the variety of terrain and the snow quality make it seem huge.

If you snowboard, you're out of luck, as Alta is one of three ski resorts in the U.S. that prohibits snowboarders, but for skiers, it's a mecca. So let's hear the real deal from Scott, whose passion for skiing started at a very early age and continues to burn to this day. It's contagious.

Scott, welcome to Where to Ski. I'm really excited to talk about Alta. Beautiful.

Well, thanks for having me, John. I'm excited to chat about Alta with you. Well, Alta has always been one of those sort of sleeper areas.

When I started skiing there myself, it was small, full of locals who knew and loved the skiing. Has that changed much now that it's got such a big reputation? Yeah, good question. You know, times do change, but at the same time, at the core of it all, like everybody who's here is here for a reason, and that's to ski and ski good snow on great terrain.

And that hasn't changed, you know. Yeah, it's still a little sleeper, but plenty of people know about us. And you know, in the last 20 plus years that I've been here, we've increasingly gotten, you know, busier and busier in all times of the season.

It's not just relegated to like the holiday periods, like it's just, there's a lot of people skiing here because they know they're going to get the best snow with the best terrain. It's a pretty wonderful place. Yeah, best snow in the world.

It's got a pretty good reputation. Let's talk a bit about getting there and what you see when you arrive. You know, it's close to Salt Lake.

Some days can be challenging getting up that canyon, but when you get there, it's just spectacular. Yeah, yeah, it is. You know, the road can definitely be, you know, a little bit of a headache, you know, especially if there's been recent snowfall or is currently snowing or if it's a busy weekend, you know, it seems to be busier and busier on the road.

But, you know, planning, I guess, ahead for that, you know, can really help. You know, if you know it's going to be snowy, you know, give yourself some time in the morning or if you have the opportunity and the means, do what you can to stay up here. I think it really enhances the experience and you actually feel part of the place, you know, for your time up here.

And when you drive in, you see, you sort of see the mountain laid there right in front of you when you go, when you get in the parking lot. Yeah. Yeah.

You kind of, you kind of come around the corner of the Peruvian Lodge, which is the first lodge. You know, they're all privately owned up here in Alta. First lodge you come to, you just kind of look into your right and you see all the westward hoe terrain and Wildcat and Collins Chairlift with High Rustler and Lone Pine just staring you in the face like, OK, it's it's go time.

Yeah, that's true. You look at it, you look at you look at what's what's there and what's available to ski. It's just like, wow, where do I start? Where do I start? Yeah.

I sort of struggled trying to pick a starting spot to talk about. There's just so many places to start and so many shoots. A lot of them are like known all over the world.

Yeah. Where would you go for a day of skiing? What's for experts? What's a go to day of skiing? And I know it depends on the weather and where the snow's accumulated, things like that. But yeah, for sure.

You know, that can be a challenge. But yeah, knowing knowing what you've got ahead for the day helps. You know, if it's going to be snowing all day, you know, you're going to be skiing a lot of trees just to kind of keep the visibility up there so you actually can see what you're doing.

You know, there are plenty of open slopes and when it's sunny and nice, you're able to ski those open slopes more confidently. But, you know, during storms, which, you know, it snows a lot here, so there's a lot of storms here in the trees and skiing, you know, tree shoots and rock lined and tree shoots and, you know, kind of get lost, but then finding yourself at the same time. It's kind of wonderful.

Does the mountain ski? Let's say we've got a nice sunny day, no weather, no wind. Is there a way to ski the mountain like with the sun? A lot of a lot of places we talk about and we go to that I've gone to, you ski with the sun and it sort of guides you around the mountain a little bit. Is Alta ski like that? Yeah, it can.

You know, it seems more so in the spring. It'll ski like that, you know, when you're chasing kind of warmer snow, like if you're in the middle of, you know, a long, long winded high pressure. Right.

And you want to be in the sun right away in the morning where the sun has warmed the snow and and then kind of follow the sun around throughout the day. Now, you know, a sunny winter day when the sun isn't doing maybe as much, but maybe the wind is, you know, doing something to the snow surface and creating some wind buff and loading it into places, but also stripping it from places, too. You kind of got to pay attention, right, to where the wind is coming from and and where it's loading the snow as well.

And that's that's more of a winter mindset. But with the sun, yeah, be in the sun and where it's warmed the snow enough. And when it gets too gushy, change your aspect a little bit and maybe focus on those slopes and kind of follow it around the compass.

So what's a good starting point for a day at Alta for an expert? You just go up as high as you can, pick a ridge and go? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I guess for for any expert kind of starting off, you know, in Alta, I definitely send them right to the Collins chairlift.

It's it is our arterial lift. You know, it's, you know, pushing 2000 vert in like eight minutes puts you right up there to the top. And, you know, the high traverse is a really good starting place.

And from the high traverse, it accesses, you know, the bread and butter of of our terrain. You know, some of the classic shoots that you had kind of referenced earlier, like Stone Crusher, High Rustler or Gunsight or High Greeley or Eagle's Nest, all those things are accessed off of the high traverse. And, you know, getting to know the high traverse early on in your day or in your trip is crucial because that's going to be, you know, the you know, the you're the best access to the most skiing.

High Rustler someplace. I think I've started more times than not. It's just a classic.

Oh, it's iconic. I'm staring at it right now. When it really dumps, how do you ski then? How, you know, you do ski in the trees when it's dumping, but after it's dumped, there's a whole sequence to opening that hill up to, isn't there? Yeah.

Yeah, there definitely is a sequence to it. You know, we we do everything we can on every single day to have the high traverse open. And that's basically Gunsite all the way around.

So you've got a lot of wonderful terrain right off the bat. You know, we've also got the Wildcat chairlift that has Westward Ho and a lot of that terrain, which is really nice, good outer skiing terrain, kind of rolly, rompy, sparsely, loosely treed, I guess. Sugarloaf tends to be a little bit more wide open, few less trees and up on Supreme, you know, some nice steep little chutes, little shorter vertical, but steep, cool little chutes.

And we try to have that bulk of terrain open on any given day. You know, as as a storm passes and we're out doing control work, you know, we typically are trying to get to what we generally call the backside or East Greeley and Yellow Trail and Glory Hole open as quick as we can. Ballroom in the shoulder, another access, another piece of terrain access off Collins we try to get to as quick as we can.

And that's all underneath Mount Baldy, which is kind of the larger mountain, you know, that's kind of looming over this part of the this side of the ski area on the Collins Gulch. You know, and once we kind of that's, you know, our secondary terrain and then, you know, maybe a day or two days after a storm, provided it's not going to, you know, start storming again, we'll make a move into the Devil's Castle, maybe up to the Baldy Chutes or up to the East Castle, which is access off of Supreme. You know, we try to get to those as often as we can.

And we're kind of now, you know, here early March, you know, kind of starting to get into that terrain more consistently after storms now that our coverage is good and, you know, it's been skied and it's a little bit avalanche wise, safer to, you know, to be up there and get a bunch of people up there skiing it. So it sounds like it's a couple of days after a big dump. It's a couple of days to get everything back open again.

Yeah, it takes it takes a bit, you know. We'll just we'll take Baldy, for instance, you know, if we're going to open all the Baldy, you know, Main Chute, the Little Chute, Dogleg, Perla's, East Ballroom, the Shoulder, all those things, you know, it takes a good 20 people, 20 patrollers doing control work multiple hours in the morning, you know, to get that online, you know, provided Mother Nature plays plays ball as well. Are there spots up there that aren't serviced by lifts that you climb to that are inbounds? Yeah, well, I mean, in a way, those that I've just referenced, like, say, Baldy, the Chutes, Devil's Castle, East Castle, these are all they're accessed by lift.

But then, you know, what most would consider a long sidestepping traverse to get out into this terrain where you can then ski it, but it's all inbounds and it's all been mitigated. Avalanche, you know, mitigation has been done. And yeah, that's those those would be the inbounds kind of off piece gems, you know, of of our terrain for sure.

How about does it help to go up with a guide or like a lead instructor? Especially, you know, first time there. Yeah. You know, that's a good question.

You know, it's always nice to have a guide. You know, you can use guide and instructor interchangeably for sure. You know, I know a lot of our instructors here have such clientele that it's not like they're out there instructing.

You know, it's really just them showing them where the best snow is and being able to cut lines, which is, you know, the price you pay for for hiring, you know, an instructor. But honestly, if you're going to be here, you know, if your listeners are going to be here for a week, you know, and they're really wanting to tap into, you know, what Alta has to offer and the conditions are good and, you know, everything is open or has been opened recently, like, you know, taking one of those days and hiring, you know, an instructor to to give them a good, you know, lay of the land for a day would probably be money well spent. Most definitely.

You guided some to you, guided by the Powderbirds, and you still do some limited guiding now. Is there off-piste skiing around there? Well, yeah, you know, we Alta does have an open boundary policy. That said, our boundary, you know, we share with Snowbird for, I don't know, probably two thirds, three quarters of our boundary.

You know, we share with Snowbird. So then there are some limitations as to how to get, you know, kind of into Snowbird's terrain gates, you know, if you will, being able to get in and into their terrain and then back into our terrain. But our main access point for kind of off-piste or, you know, backcountry skiing or side country, some people say, would be off of the Supreme chairlift and kind of out the Catherine's area.

A little bit of a hike to kind of mellow black terrain bowl that we have back there, a series of bowls. But then, yeah, some easy access, honestly, into into some some backcountry skiing out there for sure. What about for intermediates and, you know, novice skiers? It's not really a place I think of for beginners, but I think you guys do have some spots they can start.

Yeah, definitely. There's actually a really nice variety of terrain on on the Albion Basin side of the ski area. And that that chairlift would be Sunnyside.

And then the Sugarloaf and Supreme areas all have, you know, I wouldn't say green terrain up on Sugarloaf and Supreme blue terrain, but pretty mellow, well-marked and enjoyable blue terrain down on Sunnyside. Which is our beginner lift. We replaced that actually last year, and that's now a six pack, a high speed six pack, you know, five minutes you're up to the top, six minutes you're up to the top and, you know, a ton of green terrain.

Really, really accessible, you know, to everybody. And then the ski school has has a conveyor belt, you know, for kind of your very low level skier. And then there is one lift that accesses one of the lodges up here, the Snow Pine lift that accesses some really nice, you know, mellow teaching and, you know, green terrain.

So surprisingly for, you know, how much wonderful steep steep terrain we have up here, there there's there's enough terrain up here to to learn how to ski too and not be, you know, scared. Good, good. It's important.

Not everyone can throw it down, throw it down those chutes. Yeah, not everyone. I mean, they all want to and a lot of them think they can and struggle at it.

But, you know, that's how we all started, right? Yeah, the snow's soft, you know. Exactly. Now, you guys at Alta have been really at the forefront of avalanche mitigation since you opened, you know, back in 1939.

You just got rid of the howitzer that you've had for years. But what are some of the things that you guys do in the avalanche mitigation space pretty much every day and what's new? Yeah, what's new? Yeah, the the end of the the 105 program, you know, is kind of currently happening. We do, you know, up on up on Pea Ridge, we do still have two 105 howitzers.

One is UDOT, and they use that to shoot across the road. Mount Superior and a few other targets. And that that's all changing for them as well.

And then we have a gun that we still haven't decommissioned yet. But because we've now moved into a new era, we haven't used it this year and will most likely be commissioned in the next year to two years. I think they're hesitant on fully pulling out the installation until we know what we are kind of moving into works effectively.

But so far, you know, so far it is working effectively. And that being the use of some remote, remote triggered control devices that that we call the Wiesen Towers. It's a Swiss company and.

It's an 11 pound charge that falls out of basically a revolver, if you want to call it that, a carousel up on a tower and all these starting zones. And, you know, it falls from this from this box and hangs there above the snow. Big explosion takes care of the avalanche, you know, problem for that zone.

And we use them, you know, specific to the to the day and to the weather and the snow conditions. And they've been working. They've been working really well.

I thought there was some sonic devices, too, that were being used. Yeah, not necessarily sonic devices. So these Wiesen installations, it's a it's a cast booster, a bomb, you know, basically that has, you know, a a cap and a fuse.

And, you know, a 90 second fuse sort of thing. We also use what's called an Obel or an Obelex, which is pressurized gas with then a remote triggering device. They kind of up on the ridge look like little space capsules.

But that it's kind of like a gas axe, another like gas explosion that forces it down onto the slope. And they they work pretty well for for those installations. These Wiesen towers have been working, you know, I think better than those than the Obels.

But for the terrain that we have our Obels, they seem to be working really well. And yeah, here in the last three years, at least with Alta, I think we've put I think we've installed 14 of them. I might be wrong by by one or two.

But on Baldi, we have like 10 or so. And then on the East Castle, I think it's four installations. And that just allows us to to quickly do some mitigation work and be able to open the terrain underneath, not necessarily the terrain where the avalanche started, but the terrain that's underneath, because these are all locations that are, you know, under that we have skiing terrain underneath these large starting zones.

Well, that's important, too, is that a lot of avalanches start above the skiing terrain, and a lot of people don't know that. They think, oh, I'll ski out there and trigger an avalanche. No, you might ski out there and be caught by an avalanche that starts above you.

Exactly. Yeah, we have we have a lot of that terrain. And, you know, surely, surely under Baldi, you know, ballroom, which we have opened, you know, consistently provided it's not in the middle of a storm cycle and the wind is, you know, howling along and loading the slopes above.

But, you know, some thousand foot shoots, you know, above you on this mellow blue, you know, powder skiing terrain. You know, most people don't really realize that. And then kind of over in our sunny side, you know, our lower level skier Patsy Marley is above that, and that's a. Twelve fourteen hundred foot face that will often avalanche, and we've got to, you know, manage that accordingly, you know, to the weather and the wind and the and the snowpack.

So, yeah, we're we're always looking up. Well, you're always looking up. But you guys, you guys pretty much are world leaders dealing with this stuff.

And that's that's great. And sort of look to you to see what's coming up next at some of the other areas we talk about. Yeah, it's it's you know, the the history is is long and painted.

And there's a lot of a lot of the earlier, you know, mitigation techniques and use of explosives and surely then artillery, you know, stemmed from here and Little Cottonwood. You know, I think it was Monty at Monty Atwater, you know, in the 50s, you know, be being given a French seventy five howitzer and pretty much commandeering the thing and just taking care of it all by himself with the French seventy five. Well, there's nothing nothing like the sound of a mortar going off first thing in the morning.

Yeah, there is nothing like it. That's for sure. Do you guys do you guys still do hand charges, too? Most definitely.

That's the bread and butter of how we mitigate, you know, the majority of the terrain that we're that we're skiing on a daily basis. So on a big morning for us is we're out and about. We'll use, you know, 80, you know, to 100, if not more.

If we're kind of making the push to get into some other terrain, you know, we we use explosives extensively for. Yeah, for testing. And and and it works wonderfully.

And, you know, we do it very safely and and effectively. So we'll change direction a little bit after you've done skiing, after you've done some skiing, what's the best place on the mountain to grab a snack? Who to grab a snack? Yeah. You know, Alta Java is the really nice spot to go grab a snack often.

You know, you'll see a lot of locals hanging out there grabbing a quick coffee or, you know, a quick little bite that that would be kind of my go to, you know, the Watson Shelter, which is on the Collins side, kind of mid mountain. Another little coffee shop and, you know, nice restaurant there. But yeah, the Alta Java is the spot.

You know, you're able to ski a nice big, long run down to it. Grab yourself a coffee back across the transfer tow and back up Collins to go do it again. You know, that's kind of how we do it here.

We're all about skiing. Yeah, Alta's got snow like from December on good snow. What do you think the best month to head there is? Yeah, you know that that fluctuates.

That definitely fluctuates. I think if you were to, you know, in the summer, making plans going into a winter and planning your ski vacation, you know, February into March is honestly the best time, because at that point, you know, you've got a lot of the season's worth of coverage. Right.

So all your terrain that you want to go ski has snow on it and has been skied. And it also snows a lot in February and March, typically. Now, that said, we've had some pretty dry February's and March's and December's are wettest.

So, you know, being flexible and paying attention to the weather helps, helps a lot. But if you're having to make plans, you know, months in advance, February, March, you know, probably your best. But it's also kind of busy around here during those months because, you know, you're not alone.

Everybody wants to be here during those months. Yeah. And for good reason.

And early, there is good reason. And early in the season, I've always looked at it and thought, well, Alta needs about 100 inches to get really skiable is sort of my break point. Does that make sense? Yeah.

You know, that's maybe 100 inches in total snowfall. But I'm not going to lie. I feel like I feel like Alta skis the best when our mid-mountain depth is like 80 or 90 inches.

The terrain is still there. You know, there's plenty of cool nooks and crannies and, you know, rocks. You know, it's a little bit more challenging of skiing.

But, you know, we haven't lost all of our pitch to a ton of snow. Now, right now we're at about 140, 150. And it actually is really nice for 140, 150 kind of depth.

Like when you start putting too much snow on it, you know, you start losing some of the some of the steeps. But I honestly, I really like the 80, 90 inch base. Like when you start seeing Alta like 80, 90 inches like me, it's it's time to start skiing.

OK, OK. And that helps. That helps.

That might skew my planning for next year. I bet last year it got a little challenging. You had so much snow.

That was an epic year for you. It was an epic year. Did a lot of the canyons, did a lot of the chutes fill up so deep that they sort of took the steepness out? Yeah, yeah.

A lot of it. Yeah. High Rossler, Lone Pine, Stone Crusher.

I mean, it's always a little steep up top, but you start putting that much snow on it and it just it mellows out quicker than you're used to it. You know, and a lot of that's because of avalanches as well, right? Like all the snow on the steep uppers, you know, will have avalanched down into the lower, you know, angle terrain down low and kind of built up from underneath. So, I mean, we're not alone in that.

You know, you could list off a dozen ski areas that, you know, are in that same situation, you know, throughout a ski season. Well, that's snow moves. That's just the way it is.

It migrates down the hill. It does. Sometimes up the hill, depending on what the wind wants to do with it.

Staying in Alps is sort of limited. There's what, three hotels? Well, it's actually like five. You know, we've got the Peruvian, Goldminer's Daughter, the Alta Lodge, the Rustler Lodge and then the Snow Pine Lodge.

So there are five. You know, I'm not sure how many beds total, but I'm sure less than a thousand beds, you know, on all of the Alta would be my guess. But don't quote me on any of that.

But it sounds like there's, you know, there's options. There's it's not one or two. There's five is pretty good.

What about staying down in Salt Lake or Sandy? Is that really a good option? It is a good option. And, you know, and often, you know, a more cost effective option. You know, one caveat to that is if it is snowing and there are, you know, intermittent road closures and inner lodges and things like that happening, you know, you kind of want to be up here for that.

You don't want to be stuck down there or stuck on the road trying to get up. So it's it's a great option. And especially if you're, you know, on a on a week ski vacation and, you know, you're you're going to try to ski a bunch of different ski areas.

It's a great option. But if you're if you're coming out here to, you know, to ski in Little Cottonwood Canyon and here in Alta and down the road at Snowbird, thing up Canyon is is in my mind the best route because you take kind of some of those what ifs out of it and you're up here. Rain, shine, wind and snow.

Well, you mentioned interlodges, and some of our guests may not know what those are, and that's when they close the canyon down for quite a period of time, right? Yeah, for quite a period of time. Yeah, no travel on the road, but then also no.