The Mountains Are for Everyone Adaptive Skiing and Independence with Chris Read
Updated: Aug 10
For many skiers, the ritual is simple: click into your skis, ride the lift, and rock turns on a bluebird day. But for individuals living with physical, cognitive, or developmental disabilities, accessing that same freedom often requires innovation, community, and a deep commitment to inclusion. In Crested Butte, Colorado, the Crested Butte Adaptive Sports Center (ASC) is leading the way—redefining what’s possible in adaptive skiing and outdoor adventure.
We sat down with Chris Read, Program Director at ASC, to explore how adaptive sports have evolved—and why this program stands out as one of the most comprehensive adaptive recreation centers in the country.
What Adaptive Skiing Really Means Today
Traditionally, adaptive sports are defined by specialized equipment and teaching techniques that help people with disabilities participate in physical activity. But Reid offers a broader—and more inclusive—view. “We’re all adaptive,” he explains. Ski boots, specialized gear, and performance fabrics are adaptations every skier relies on. Some people simply need more of them.
This shift in perspective helps remove stigma and places adaptive skiing on a continuum rather than in a separate category. With modern equipment like sit-skis, outriggers, tethers, and custom modifications, adaptive athletes are skiing more independently—and at higher performance levels—than ever before.
A Program Built on People, Not Just Gear
While ASC has access to cutting-edge adaptive equipment, Reid emphasizes that the true differentiator is the people behind the program. From highly trained instructors and program administrators to thousands of volunteer hours each year, the Adaptive Sports Center operates on a “takes a village” model. Instructors come from backgrounds in therapeutic recreation, outdoor education, sociology, and education, allowing them to tailor each experience to the individual—not just the diagnosis. Two participants with identical medical profiles may require completely different approaches, and ASC’s staff excels at meeting people where they are.
Serving All Ages, All Abilities, Year-Round
ASC is not just a winter adaptive ski program. It’s a year-round, mountain-based adventure organization, offering activities such as mountain biking, rock climbing, kayaking, ice climbing, ropes courses, camping trips, and peak hikes. In winter, skiing and snowboarding take center stage, but Nordic skiing and snowshoeing round out the offerings. Participants range from as young as three years old to well into their 80s and beyond, with a remarkably balanced mix of children and adults, physical and developmental disabilities, and genders. ASC also works closely with hospitals, rehab centers, and veteran organizations, serving as a bridge between clinical rehabilitation and lifelong outdoor activity.
Independence as the Ultimate Goal
One of ASC’s core philosophies is strikingly simple: the goal is not to create lifelong clients. Instead, the program aims to foster independence. Whether it’s a child surprising their parents with newfound confidence or a spouse rediscovering shared adventure after a life-altering injury, these breakthroughs often ripple far beyond the slopes.
Families are encouraged to participate together, reinforcing the idea that outdoor adventure should be inclusive—not isolating. These shared experiences frequently transform family dynamics, replacing fear and limitation with confidence and possibility.
A Purpose-Built Facility at the Heart of Crested Butte
In 2019, ASC moved into a custom-designed facility just steps from the lifts at Crested Butte Mountain Resort. Designed with input from participants, staff, volunteers, and architects experienced in rehabilitation environments, the building is fully purpose-built for adaptive recreation. This central location isn’t just convenient—it’s symbolic. Adaptive skiing isn’t hidden away; it’s front and center, part of the everyday mountain experience.
Removing Financial Barriers to the Slopes
Perhaps most remarkable is ASC’s commitment to accessibility. A full day of programming—including instruction, lift ticket, and equipment—costs just $95, less than the price of many lift tickets alone. Scholarships, grants, and donor support further reduce barriers, ensuring cost is never the reason someone can’t participate.
Every lesson operates at a loss, but ASC embraces this model as part of its nonprofit mission: making outdoor adventure accessible to all.
Why Adaptive Skiing Matters
Adaptive skiing isn’t just about sport—it’s about dignity, independence, mental health, and joy. At Crested Butte Adaptive Sports Center, skiing is more than a downhill pursuit. It’s a powerful reminder that the mountains belong to everyone.
For more information contact the ASC
Episode Transcript
Welcome to Where to Ski. I'm John Morgan, your host. If you listen to this podcast, it's most likely because you share a passion for skiing.
For those of us who flourish on the most spectacular sport on a bluebird day, flying down hills, we sometimes take for granted that we just click into our skis and go. In Crested Butte, Colorado, I came across an organization whose mission is to bring the same experience to individuals with a wide range of disabilities. Giving them the opportunity to experience the freedom of skiing, or boarding down some of the most beautiful mountains in Colorado's Rockies, is really gratifying work.
The Crested Butte Adaptive Sports Center is a year-round therapeutic outdoor adventure recreation program with adaptive activities ranging from mountain biking and skiing to ice climbing and kayaking. The first adaptive ski programs were started for disabled veterans after World War II. They've since expanded to include special needs skiers of all ages and abilities.
There are now dozens of adaptive ski centers across the world. Through a combination of specialized equipment and training, people who might otherwise be left behind when friends and family take to the slopes can now join in fun by using special rail-like devices, ski bottom crutches, and tethers. But I think what distinguishes the Adaptive Sports Center is the people behind it.
Some of the best trained and most passionate instructors, volunteers, administrative staff, and even a few mountain vets who share a commitment to providing the benefits, both physical and mental, of outdoor adventure without limitation. So today, we're leaving our own skis and boards behind, talking about adaptive skiing with the Adaptive Sports Center's Program Director, Chris Reid. We'll be back with Chris in just a minute.
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That's backcountry at backcountry.com. Reid, thank you for joining Wear2Ski. I'm really excited to have you with us today. Yeah, thanks for the invite.
It's a pleasure to talk to you. You lead one of the most comprehensive adaptive ski programs in the country. It's a lot more than just putting people on snow.
It's a really complex operation that requires knowledge, equipment, volunteers, and funding. We'll get into all that over the next few minutes. But I used to do some work with adaptive sports years ago at Winter Park.
It's really changed adaptive sports, just even the definition of adaptive sports change. Maybe you could give us some insight into what adaptive really means to you guys out there. Sure.
Well, it's interesting you say that. I was just talking about this with some of my staff not too long ago. Traditionally speaking, adaptive sports means using specialized equipment and or teaching techniques to get people with some type of special need out doing a sport-based activity.
That's the traditional definition, and that's definitely what we do here. We have a whole bunch of very cool equipment that we use. Specialized teaching techniques and training and education, all that kind of stuff.
But I actually think the best way to think about it is in this day and age, anyone who's doing a sport, whether it be like a traditional sport like basketball or something like that, or an outdoor adventure sport, we're kind of all using adaptations to do that sport. A ski boot is an adaptation for every skier out there. You couldn't ski without it.
The specialized court shoe for a basketball player in this day and age, or all the special compression fabrics we're using in this day and age, those are adaptive, that's adaptive equipment. So I think we all fall on that spectrum of adaptive and how we use things and what we do. And the fact of the matter in this day and age, some people just need more of certain adaptations than others.
And it's a cool time to be doing this because the equipment and all this stuff that's available is better than ever. And so I think if people think about it that way, it's almost easier to relate to. That's an interesting perspective.
That's like a continuum or a spectrum rather than just sort of tactical implementations. Yeah. And we often see folks who start off and you think they're going to need this, that, and the other, and they often need less.
And so it's definitely, I think at times, I'm a big fan of less is more and the more simple, the better the outcome usually. How did you personally end up in Crested Butte at ASC? You have a pretty good story there. You've been at this a while too.
I've been at this for a while. I've been in the industry for the outdoor adventure industry for pushing 30 or more years, which is hard to believe because it's gone really fast. You know, Crested Butte and my job here, it was kind of two different planes for a long time.
I grew up in Colorado Springs, like we're talking about earlier before you start recording. And I had an uncle who was an old ski patroller here in Crested Butte. And so as a family, we just came here for ski trips and camping trips and things like that.
So Crested Butte got in my blood at a very early age. And then as soon as I left home, this was the left Colorado Springs. This was the first place I came to.
Education wise is what got me into this role. And so I started off in college down the road at Western State as a physical therapy major. And I liked it, but in all honesty, I was only halfway into it.
And then a ski trip, a spring break ski trip out to Utah with some friends, put us on campus at the University of Utah to go to an event there. And I grabbed a course catalog and I found out on the drive home as I was flipping through that catalog about recreation therapy. And that just caught my eye because I was physical therapy.
I'd never even heard of recreation therapy. Long story short, I transferred, got a degree from the University of Utah in rec therapy, went off, did an internship, worked in that field for a little bit, went back to school, got a master's in outdoor ed, worked in the mainstream kind of adventure field for a while. And I got kind of bored with that.
And I came back to the adaptive setting because like we say around here, often it's never boring. You're always thinking things through a little deeper and the rest is history. So like I said earlier, I've been in the industry for about 30 years.
And there are 30 plus years I've been with this program for about 24, I believe. And you were at Winter Park for a while there too, weren't you? I was. Yeah, that's where I got my start.
I did my required internship there for therapeutic recreation. And I was lucky enough to work with Hal O'Leary, who often many people describe him as kind of the godfather of adaptive rec and adaptive skiing for sure. And he taught me how to be a river guide.
And I learned how to teach. And I worked in the equipment room there and tinkered with a lot of adaptive gear at the time, which was cutting edge at the time. And now you see it and it looks pretty archaic because it was a long time ago.
And I'm still good friends with many people I met over there. And that was definitely my launching pad into the adaptive realm of things. Yeah.
Back when I used, I did do some volunteer work there a couple of times, a long time ago, and they had a lot of people in boats. What really amazed me were the blind skiers and basically take a slalom pole and just ski down next to the blind skier and they'd follow along. It was amazing.
Yeah. Yeah. Some of those techniques still exist today.
Like all that stuff, it's been a slow evolution and tactile or guiding instruction versus audible guiding instruction. All those methods are still very much used today. And back in the early days of that program, they were figuring that stuff out.
There was no certification. There was no textbooks. All that, all this stuff, all the wonderful stuff we have today didn't exist.
Hasn't always existed. It's evolved from people figuring things out with their participants, the instructor and participant relationship. And a lot of cool techniques have come out of that over time.
Well, as you were saying, tinkering too, a lot of playing with the equipment. Tell me about a little bit about the participants you've got. You have, I don't know what your throughput is in a year in terms of number of people that go through your programs and you do summer and winter programs too.
So it's, you're a little bit more advanced than some of the other centers that are just winter only. Yeah. So our programs are all based, our activities that we offer all, I call, I just call them human adventure, mountain-based adventure programming.
So our human, human powered, I should say, mountain adventure based programming. So we do everything from mountain biking, rock climbing to flat water, lake programmings, river. We have a ropes course.
We do camping trips and peak hikes and peak climbing and all those things. So all the typical stuff that people come to Colorado to do. And in the wintertime, we're by and large skiing and snowboarding.
And then we have some periphery activities like Nordic skiing, for example, that we do as a small percentage and some snowshoeing, things like that. But by and large, in the wintertime, we're a ski based program. And so, and then the people we serve, we kind of serve folks of all different kind of backgrounds, physical disabilities, developmental disabilities, people with cognitive disabilities.
We also serve their friends and family members, especially the immediate family, which I think that's really important. They participate with our program along with everybody. And that's really cool.
And so, yeah, our full age group, all categories of disability. And our job is to figure out how to get people out doing cool things. Are there any age groups that you hit the most of? Or where do a lot of these people come from? So age groups, I'm estimating here.
But I think last year, we were, I think, three years old to about 90 years old was the full spectrum of who we serve. I think our core programming is probably people, kids, seven, eight years old up to adults in their mid-50s, early 60s is probably the core group of who we serve. And we're really balanced.
I think one thing, I look at a lot of numbers for our program, and I think what's really interesting is we're really balanced. We're balanced in physical versus developmental disabilities, for example. We're really balanced in gender, ages.
And so really start looking at like we're kind of 50% adults and 50% kids and 50% this and 50% that. And so we're truly seeing kind of a nice sample of who comes through. We work with a lot of organizations, rehab centers and things like that, that bring their patients out to be participants with us.
And that is often a stepping stone from clinical rehab to kind of the next chapter of life, like someone's new reality of living with an acquired injury, for example, whether it be spinal cord injury or traumatic brain injury or amputation, vision loss, those things. So we work with a lot of organizations that come to us and we act as kind of a facilitator of that kind of progression in their recovery. And I think the cool thing about that is those organizations that we work with, like it's really important to them that they're showing their patients what's still possible, what new resources are, and introductions to really cool equipment, to healthy, long-term, lifelong activity and all that kind of stuff.
And I think that's the secret sauce is really introduction to those things. And they might never come back and ski again. It might be a four-day ski experience, but someone who's kind of graduating from clinical care, so to speak, just the fact that they traveled for the first time post-injury, they met a bunch of peers, often people they didn't know before the trip, but they leave here with a kind of a peer group because they bring out a group of peers, and then they have connections to problem-solve down the road in the future and people to socialize with and people who can truly empathize with the adjustment they're going through and all that.
So that experience is really important. And that's all through the kind of the conduit of going on a bike or a ski trip. That's kind of the carrot, but the takeaway is often much bigger.
Yeah. You mentioned working with the families, too. I assume that's pretty important to be able to give families the structure to be able to help the disabled family members progress.
Yeah. You know, just even from that long-term piece, like families want to do cool things together. They want to vacation together and travel together and all that.
And the last thing we want to do is have the person who needs our program come here and everyone else goes there, right? It should be a family unit, just like most people go on trips. And so that's a core part of what we do. And we see it every day.
We have a family here today, for example. And it's just really important. It's really cool for parents to realize, you know, if a parent has a child with whatever disability, it's really cool to have the parents witness the kid have a breakout moment or be stronger or more capable than what they thought of.
And it can change the dynamic for the better at home. And so it's that independence piece. And one thing I kind of preach to our staff is our goal is to make people not need us anymore.
We're not trying to build clientele. There's plenty of folks out there that could come through here and use our services. Our goal is independence or as independent as possible.
And you really see that kind of kick in with the parent and child dynamic, sometimes a spouse dynamic. Like, you know, someone, a couple has one of the spouses was injured in a car wreck or something like that, like a permanent disability or condition. And they come here and participate together and they watch each other mountain bike or rock climb or ski.
And then there's just these really cool kind of realizations that happen about independence and capability and interest and drive. And I mean, it's a long list. We see some really cool things.
That is pretty cool. That's awesome. Actually, it takes a sort of a crowd to be able to get this place running.
I've stood outside your spot in the winter and watching people come out with or without assistance and instructors or whatever. It's a steady stream. I mean, there's a lot of people involved in the program and that's some of the differentiators you've got.
You've got a really committed group of people working in the program, both full-time and I assume part-time as instructors, as coaches. And maybe you could talk a little bit about them, what kind of training they have, where you find them and things like that. Yeah, it's an amazing group.
And the other thing that's super obvious is this place is the result of a lot of effort from a lot of really good people over the course of time. Start off as this little teeny tiny program. It's going to be what it is today.
And there is hundreds, if not thousands of people involved in getting us to where we are today. And it takes a village and that continues. You know, our volunteers are phenomenal.
We have people who volunteer on a very, very regular basis, up to people who do a couple times a year for both programs and special events. And we could not do what we do without that support. It's a tremendous workforce.
They bring in thousands and thousands of hours a year of time that they dedicate to us. We have an incredibly dedicated board of directors who brings a lot of like legal and business expertise and all the, you know, funding sources, all the things that we need to make that happen there. And we have an incredibly dedicated staff here, both admin and field staff, instructor staff that are very knowledgeable, extremely dedicated.
And they show up every day and make that happen. It's really I've been doing this for a long time. And we had an instructor interview yesterday, actually.
And I told her that, you know, it's I'm still amazed how well the pieces of the puzzle come together to make a day happen, because there's a lot of considerations. And so as far as training program staff, the program admin staff, most of us here have some type of background in outdoor education or therapeutic recreation or put those concepts into play at an admin level with planning and things like that, and the training we offer and things like that. And then the same is true with our instructor staff.
You know, they're out in the field every day or seven days a week during the season, both summer and winter. And same, that crew has a very strong background in outdoor ed, therapeutic rec, sociology, education, things like that. And they really apply that knowledge to our programs.
And so they come in with a lot of knowledge. They come in with a lot of motivation and drive. They're really extremely dedicated to the mission.
And then just like any other job, the longer you do it, you start learning the tricks of the trade and you just start kind of fine tuning those skills and going to trainings. And it's really cool to watch an instructor go from the learner to the teacher as far as like the staff interaction goes. You know, I have folks that come in and they're nervous.
And next thing you know, and I have no concept of time, but as time goes on and years go on and people are dedicated to it, they start becoming the experts. And next thing you know, they're helping train the staff and all that. So there's just that evolution that happens.
One thing that's really interesting about what we do is it's in a good way, like I said, it's never boring. It's unpredictable. You can have two participants come in and on paper, side by side, they can have almost an identical diagnosis.
But even if they're doing the same activity, it could be a very different facilitation experience. And so I think that's what our staff does so well is they really tune into the person and they fine tune what the person needs. And then they make it happen.
And I think that's a really cool thing because it's, you know, people, everyone's an individual despite diagnosis. And you really have to tune into who that individual is to provide a good experience. I've been to your place and you inside that in the back room, you've got a lot of equipment back there.
Yeah. How did you guys come up with all the different pieces? Is it just trial and error and working with stuff over the years or there's, I can't imagine that everything is specially developed for disabled skiers. A lot of it this day and age is, I think that's one of the cool things, you know, that's the evolution I've seen.
I've been in the industry for a long time and the industry has definitely evolved from like creating things in house to be able to purchase things that are engineered and designed. And we still do a lot of tweaks and we still create things. Our program coordinator created this really cool ski boot adaptation last year.
That was just for that person. And we might never use it again, but it worked really well. It was a great idea for that person during those four days.
But yeah, a lot of that gear you saw, a lot of that is now being manufactured, engineered and manufactured for built for purpose stuff. Mountain bikes are really, I know you're a ski podcast, but mountain bikes are the things that really come along in the last six, seven years, like a rapid development phase of bike technology and the skiing side of things. The sit down equipment has really evolved from pretty basic designs, you know, 20 years ago, 25 years ago to really elaborate high performance designs that are really modifiable by design in this day and age.
And so, yeah, it's pretty cool that it's become that available. And I think adaptive skiing, kind of like I was saying earlier, everyone adapts to ski at some level. It used to be kind of this like thing that was not super common.
And now, I mean, it's hard to go to a ski area anywhere without seeing adaptive skiing happening either through a lesson or someone just out on their own doing their own thing. You know, it's getting press time. You see it in truck commercials now and like, you know, adaptive athletes are just, they're a time they've been folded into the industry, and I think it's cool.
Well, I think that's a big push from the Olympics too, including the Paralympic games and all sorts of other lower level events than the Olympics, including Paralympic Paragames comest part of their programs. Yeah. A lot of the outdoor manufacturers.
I can't remember who it was. I was flipping through a website or something looking for a shirt and, you know, this is a few months ago. And the models were adaptive athletes.
So I've seen, you know, that evolution has been really cool to watch. And I think adaptive skiing is the most visible because people all show up to ski and it's very obvious when the adaptive lessons are happening. We're summertime adaptive recreation.
We're kind of out there in the same volume, but we're more tucked away in certain valleys and drainages. And, you know, it's not, it doesn't have the, um, Concentration that, the winter program has as far as interactions with the public. And so I think adaptive skiing has really been a cool thing.
And, and, um, it's really helped highlight, um, it's just kind of helped make all of that folded in. I was like, it's a very normal thing to just go ski, no matter who you are. I think that's really cool.
Well, and you mentioned your, your facility is like front and center at Crested Butte. You're right there at the lift, you know, 20, 30 feet away from the lift. It's beautiful spot and you really designed it specifically.
You designed and build it specifically for its use. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about that. It's a beautiful facility.
Yeah. It's been a game changer for us. Um, it's kind of, it was the forever home concept and, um, you know, same deal goes is like how the program has evolved.
It was a big group effort. Um, we had design teams. Um, we had an architect who had experience, um, with rehab hospital design.
You know, so they brought in a lot of knowledge, but we got our participants involved. We got our full staff involved. We've got our volunteers involved.
Um, we had different staff in different groups sharing ideas with the design team. And so, um, it's all very built for purpose. And, uh, before we had this facility, we were across the way and, uh, kind of a mini mall set up at the base area.
And we basically had taken over the whole basement. Um, but we were renters and, uh, we had a somewhat unpredictable elevator scenario down there. And, and, um, and we made it happen, you know, like so many programs do is just is what we had.
So we made it work and, uh, and to the resort's credit, um, this piece of property came up for was, they knew it was going to come available. And, um, this goes back to like 2014 or so. Um, don't quote me on that, but right, right around in there.
And, uh, and the resort at the owners at the time gave us right at first refusal on the property. And we saw the, you know, we knew that the, something like this would never, um, come available again at the base area. And, uh, and that just put a bunch of cogs in motion and, um, our board of directors got on it with the admin team here and, and, uh, everyone realized the opportunity and that, that, um, that set all the wheels in motion to do the capital campaign and to eventually break around and build it.
And then we moved in, in June of 2019. And, uh, we've been here ever since. And, uh, it's a, it's a great facility.
It's awesome. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful spot.
And that's a great story. It's, um, you know, it took a lot of work for you to get that, to get the site and get it built. And it took not just you, but your whole team.
And I'm sure your board of directors, hopefully they were involved, but right up to the hill. Yeah. It took a lot of people.
Well, well beyond me, I was part of the process, but, um, a lot of people were executive director, Chris Hensley was involved, our board president at the time I was super involved. Um, we have the support of the community and the resort and the staff, and it was, uh, it was truly, it takes a village moment for the organization. Absolutely.
When we first met, um, a few months ago, one of the things you said really sort of made an impression on me that every time you send someone out the door, it costs you money, what does the program cost for the students that go through there? Um, well, we're lucky enough. We're, um, we're, we have a lot of support. And so, you know, one of the things we're trying to do is make access to these programs as easy as possible.
Um, our daily rate right now is $95 a day. And that includes instruction, uh, lift ticket, um, equipment. And, um, the general theory behind that is, you know, you and I can take a ski lesson, um, get down the basics and then basically go to a ticket window somewhere and buy a lift ticket and go skiing.
And so, um, I'm spending more than $95 for my lift ticket. I'll tell you that for sure. Um, and, and, but you know, it's easy.
Like there's no, like, you know, fill out paperwork or whatever. So we're, you know, we just try to keep it easy and there's a few layers to this, but as far as this, the easy access goes, um, you know, we'd look at things like a scholarship form, that's a barrier. You know, uh, we look at things like a high sticker price on a website listing somewhere and having people just assume that that's beyond their reach, that's a barrier.
And so our whole goal with our pricing structure is to, um, basically eliminate barriers, um, make participation as easy and feasible as possible and have people be able just to go skiing. Um, like I was saying earlier, you can take a few lessons as a, um, as able buy person, get down to basics and go skiing. Some of our folks need instruction or equipment or, or something like that, just to go out.
Um, if you had to take a ski lesson, every single time you want to go skiing at ski lesson prices, you probably wouldn't go that often. Right. Um, and so we're trying to, yeah, it gets very expensive.
So we're trying to basically have the general theory that if we want people to enjoy this as part of their options of what to do with free time and interest and stuff like that, like keep it simple and, and have it kind of shadow, um, the mainstream ski experience, you know? Um, and some people simply will need us for a long time to access the mountain. And, um, and so you can look at it as ski instruction or you can look at a ski access and, you know, and I'll, and anyone that goes out, of course is going to have some instruction and help and all that. We're very skilled instruction based, but that access point is really important.
And so that's something we're trying to achieve with our rate. And, um, the other layer of that is, you know, we serve people who are, um, you know, a vast majority of folks with disabilities in this country are, um, potentially underemployed. They have higher medical costs.
Um, there's all those costs of living considerations. And so that's where you get to that 95. Yeah.
We're lower than a lift ticket costs. Um, but you know, it's all relative what, what a feasible rate is. Um, and then for the folks who can pay more and plenty, plenty of folks like that do come through, they're paying the same price, but we encourage them to donate back to the program, kind of that difference or whatever they can.
Uh, there's no expectation as kind of a peer to peer support network, um, that keeps, um, that keeps funding up and our price is down and, and so far it's working out pretty well. It definitely has its challenges. Uh, we lose a chunk of money.
Every lesson goes out the door for sure. And so our development team is doing a phenomenal job of making up for those differences. Um, but as a nonprofit and as people who are promoting health wellness recreation, um, in, in relative to who we serve, um, you know, it's a model that kind of is logical.
Well, and you do a tremendous amount with scholarships and grants for students, things like that too. Yeah. Even with that rate, we're still scholarship in quite a bit.
Um, with those rehab group programs, I was talking about our group programming. We do a lot of funding support for travel meals, lodging. Um, all those things.
So there's still beyond that $95 rate. We're still, um, providing a whole bunch of financial support for people to come through. Um, and then our hope is also if people can't afford it, that they're being straight up and they're, you know, they're paying full pop.
And, um, the better that's managed, the more we can truly help.
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